Is there any point to getting married as opposed to just keeping her around as a gf?

Is there any point to getting married as opposed to just keeping her around as a gf?

Schizophrenic Conspiracy Theorist Shirt $21.68

Homeless People Are Sexy Shirt $21.68

Schizophrenic Conspiracy Theorist Shirt $21.68

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, unless you want children.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      no need to invite the state into your personal relationship to have a kid bootlicker

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Think of it like a wager. You commit because you love her and think shes attractive, with the understanding that people grow less attractive with age. A "partner" to have in life.

    If she's more into you than you are into her, then you may get away with not committing. Depends ultimately on what she wants.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No. Marriage is a failed institution. Feminism made it so women don't need men to provide resources and safety anymore, this is provided to women by the government now.

      >Depends ultimately on what she wants
      She wants to party her 20s away, have sex with many guys and marry a rich beta provider who spent his 20s studying and working hard to have a stable life.

      As I said, marriage is a failed institution. It doesn't make sense in modern society.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >men to provide resources and safety anymore
        Good, no longer my problem to be a slave.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If you are a woman, then you are likely working harder at your job than you would have at home, you are doing only a little bit less work to maintain your current house than you would have living with a husband, you have less than you would have had if your husband was working due to the immense decreases in value of labor since women entered the workforce, and you don't have the fulfillment of a family, something that is evolutionarily hardwired into the psyche of humans.

          If you are a man, then you are still working, except you also have to maintain the cleanliness of your home, something that your wife would have been able to take care of for you while you were at work. Also, you are likely making less than you would have made because women working decreases the value of labor, and since you're on NSFFW realistically the only chance you have at getting married is grinding for money through your 20's and getting married in your 30's to a woman with a high body count and a lot of baggage.

          Either way, the complete abandonment of gender roles which carried society for millenia have completely ruined both relations between men and women and have put many roadblocks in the way of starting a family, which is what carries a society into the future. Feminism has failed the west.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            "Man goes to work while woman cleans the house" was only the state of things for about 40 years in the United States and it's what lead to the shitty gender war society we live in now. It's not some admirable tradition you should want to retvrn to or the natural state of human beings.

            Nta but just assuming the best in women and the worst in men, then making a claim such as "divorces happen because men are le bad" is completely fricking moronic

            Thinking that most women would divorce a man for the sociopathic purpose of taking half of his stuff (which isn't what happens) is overly cynical.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >divorce a man for the sociopathic purpose of taking half of his stuff
            This anon thinks that bimbos marry rich ugly men for their rugged good looks.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ok then, but why do they still take half his stuff if she's leaving for another reason?
            Why have the half stuff and alimony rule at all?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If they're in marriage it's not his stuff but their stuff

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            In the past women helped work the fields because it was so time consuming that one person needed all the help they could get for it, and then when industrialization happened women worked to help get a bit more money to help the family. When women were just staying at home in the USA was because it was rich after WWII and the reason it stopped working was because women had it so easy due to labor saving machines that they got bored. If women were willing to maintain the same gender roles but do some basic, small job then it would be fine but the culture of women need to be the best because girl power has ruined things.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >production skyrockets
            >wages stagnate
            >billionaires get more rich, lobby more, have more power
            >continue to block anything and everything that has tax dollars spent on tax payers and lobby to get massive tax breaks themselves as well as bailouts and corporate wellfare
            >lobby for anything that boosts production, profit and shareholders benefit, at literally any expense to the consumer or the worker.
            >social media comes out and locks everyone into petty internet debates about where penises go and what veganas should do.
            >ItS gIrL pOwEr ThAtS rUiNiNg EvErYtHiNg

            I have this wild conspiracy that women never wanted to work at all, and men were fighting for.less hours snd more pay (in fact labour day is literally about ahen we won 40 hour work week as opposed to 7 12s, with fair pay and weekends... we literally were fighting and winning our right to share in profits WE made happen and have a life) and then as it got harder to live and women started needing to work any complaint about it was immediately answered with "what? Women wanted to work. They LIKE it."

            Not a single woman watched a man return from a coal mine ajd said, hey i wanna do that. If anything it was women with zero other choice for their kids.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Factual

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Historically accurate AND based? On my Indonesian watercolor forum?

            This site is for >women bad and poltards getting livid over minorities.

            How dare you

            > I have this wild conspiracy that women never wanted to work at all

            To be fair tho, men never wanted to work either. They were just coerced into it by structural poverty. No one ever worked 14 hrs in the mines for love of the game

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >men never wanted to work
            Thats exactly what I mean though. We were fighting for less.
            The goal should be complete unemployment. Yet somehow despite the advancements in the last 150 years weve now doubled the amount of people that HAVE to work, and doubled their hours required for any kind of sustainable life.
            Were getting robbed fricking blind and people are on the internet like "I am like 95% sure its the gays fault"

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because corporatism always wins and they'll pull every trick in the book to stop people from organizing against them. Humans are too dumb and naive. They spend 12 hours agnonizing over what the cashier Becky meant when she said "These pizzas are all for you?" and 1 min on deciding the government that will influence their everyday lives over the next 4 years and further via consequences of decisions made in those 4 years

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Its not Even the government really man. Thats all fake and for show. Its an oligarchy. Youre choosing which lobbyists have more power. And none of them are for us.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            100%

            I’ve been coming to 4chins off & on for 15 years probably. I used to come here for the memes when it was a genuinely funny place. But if has always been a hotbed of braindead rightwing bullshit. You really had to cut through pages of morons spamming “Black person” for everything. It was rare even then to have much discussion in good faith.

            Nowadays I just come to /adv/ as a kind of social worker to try & counsel the Zoomers. They just seem lost, sad, & angry. I figure if I can have a positive impact on at least one of them, my degree will be put to good use

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Firstly holy fricking quads.
            And lol I think were the same guy.
            17 years here. Came for the memes and the lols.
            Now just on /adv/.
            I have a feeling frustrating as it is arguing with the hopeless cases full of excuses, the lurkers are the ones benefiting from what you say.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Firstly holy fricking quads.
            And lol I think were the same guy.
            17 years here. Came for the memes and the lols.
            Now just on /adv/.
            I have a feeling frustrating as it is arguing with the hopeless cases full of excuses, the lurkers are the ones benefiting from what you say.

            Wait what's your degree?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Same, sorta. Started on 420chan, came to biz, now spend most of my time on adv for basically missionary work for incels. I was in a 10 yr relationship that went to shit so I had to figure out what went wrong, figure out who I was without it, and get my sea legs back. Tbh dating in mid 30s is pretty great. I'm like 20s college me on steroids. Had no idea I'd have access to these women

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Tbh dating in mid 30s is pretty great.
            Any advice on that? Its been the opposite for me.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Please share any advice and your experiences for me as well.

            I share here all the time. But if you're asking for how I got my rizz, basically

            Mindfulness to get out of my head and present in the moment, learned emotional intelligence to get in touch with my emotions and learn to access them and be more expensive, and learned to flirt watching Craig Ferguson interviews.

            I've got quick wit so it works for me. Sometimes I take out 2 girls at a time.

            Authenticity, presence, and attentiveness is my thing. I make em laugh then flirt. Easy to outshine competition, you let them keep her busy and talk their way out of her pants, then just flirt or make her laugh when she wants your attention. Makes you look amazing next to the other guys.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I love you anon. Thank you for the tips

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Please share any advice and your experiences for me as well.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Stop blaming feminism it’s not their fault if you’re alone and single.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The same person typing this probably blames "racism" for if an individual black person is poor and fatherless

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          And yet feminism was what created the conditions for the destruction of the family and of relationships between men and women. The only thing that can really be blamed in this situation is feminism and the attitudes that it instilled in people.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            feminism took hold because men became weak

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Feminism took hold because labor saving devices meant that women had nothing to do, and corporations wanted to pay lower wages so they funded and supported it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How come this thread is the first time I've ever seen people talk about this? From my personal experience people talk as if women we're oppressed since the dawn of time and men just for some reason always wanted to go work a shitty job that made their bosses rich, and that was somehow peoples ideal lives with the white pickett fence and red shiny car to take your family to somewhere to either consoom or wage slave some more until you die.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I swear these types of old timey images were propoganda to make people think america was so much better than it real is/ever was, there has to be a better alternative to making the israelites more money while we get screwed over at every fricking turn, i'm 21 and I have no passion to want to go to college because I can't see any of these jobs, money, or women making my life any better or feel satisfied, it all feels like lies upon lies.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Make money, buy a plot of land in a rural area, and become as self sufficient as possible. You will work only for yourself and you will live in a community with sensible and kind people.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The whole "Living off the grid" thing makes more sense every single day. And unironically becoming a farmer and living off the land and having a God given environment.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because that is both the narrative that feminism spread to get women to feel as if staying at home and being mothers was wrong, and it is the natural endpoint of the general idea that all people are identical and interchangeable from birth and the only thing changing them is the society around them. When there is no ability to recognize differences based on sex, then suddenly things like gender roles become impossible to justify because why should women be expected to do work oriented towards emotionally and details while men do more logical and physical jobs? When you understand that men and women are better at different things and enjoy doing different things though, it makes perfect sense and you can see that basically every civilization for all of history was able to experiential determine these things, and used them to make successful and stable societies. When the West became infatuated with the idea of liberalism, one of the core tenets is the tabula rasa theory, which compares people to blank slates. This idea was one of the major missteps of Locke, and his ideas about humans before civilization were also basically the opposite of what really happened. When the West fully embraced Liberalism and made their societies fully embody all of its ideas, this idea being taken to its logical conclusion was what really caused the cracks to show.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Your argument is invalid as studies show in prehistoric times women were just as much of active hunters and warriors as men. The male provider female housekeeper has no biological standpoint, only a societal one.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And we're not getting le strong men back any time soon, not when HR is a culture of fat black samoan women who hate quiet white guys and there's no prize for working hard, i.e., a woman

            So I was told we're going to sit here not having sex, not working, and making AI nudes of women

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        KHHV incels
        >Feminism made it so women don't need men to provide resources and safety anymore, this is provided to women by the government now.
        Also KHHV incels
        >marry a rich beta provider who spent his 20s studying and working hard to have a stable life
        Which is it, loser?
        Do women not need men for their money or do all women need men for their money?
        >She wants to party her 20s away
        Among Zoomer women aged 24-26 25% are married

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >She wants to party her 20s away, have sex with many guys and marry a rich beta provider who spent his 20s studying and working hard to have a stable life.
        Not every girl is extroverted like this.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You want to keep her around

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've had a girlfriend for 10 years now. I pay my bills and she pays hers. Since we're not married, she knows that she has to actively work to keep me happy or else I I might move on to someone else.

    Married couples get lazy, fat, and complacent because there's no incentive to improve oneself.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There is a thing about women that after a while dating some one for five years, the society put a pressure, "why you don't marry, do you think he isn't ideal for you?" and things like that, besides marring being big deal for them, a moment that many awaited, because it was what millennials wore exposed back then.

      I like this point of view, marring it's just a symbol

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    joint tax return

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    marriage is too expensive in the 21st century. It's like taking out a second mortgage but divorce is dirty cheap.

    It's a poor investment. No making a poor investment has nothing to do with trust, it's got more to do with stupidity.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is one proper way to have relationships: Getting married, putting babies in her and staying together forever. If your ancestors were degenerate low t homosexuals like you you wouldn't be here today. Find a good woman and marry her.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This just doesn't work anymore because divorce can happen even if a woman just doesn't feel like being married at that current time and half for the man's stuff will be taken no matter what. Additionally, when there are kids involved, the woman is automatically seen as the one to get custody and the man has to prove that she is unsuitable to be able to take gain custody. Even when there is undeniable evidence, many of the judges either are women who are biased towards the wife or just feel as if children should be with their mothers no matter what, so even direct evidence that she is abusive may not always be enough.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've lost so much cum to susu

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No. I will not accept the 40-50% chance of divorce and losing half of my assets (including capital gains on pre-martial assets). Sorry!

    Fortunately society has made it so there's no pressure of obligation to get married. You can keep a girlfriend, have sex, and replace her with zero cost if the relationship ever becomes net negative to your life.

    I just don't understand why you would pick marriage in $CURRENT_YEAR after society has made not getting married such a better choice.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >40-50% chance of divorce
      The majority of the time it's because the man is a shitty husband. Just don't be shitty.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Any source for that other than women asserting it?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Women don't like about stuff like that.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Just don't be shitty
        But the divorce rate still wouldn't become 0%, would it? What if I'm cheated on?

        Meanwhile I can still get all the upside with no risk while not marrying.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And yet most divorces are initiated by women while the men are less willing to annul a marriage.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah...? Why do you think the women initiate it?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because the incentive of half the stuff?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If the husbands treated them well they wouldn't even think of it

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nta but just assuming the best in women and the worst in men, then making a claim such as "divorces happen because men are le bad" is completely fricking moronic

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And yet most divorces are initiated by women while the men are less willing to annul a marriage.

        90% of divorce is initiated by the woman and 75% of divorce is initiated over financial reasons.

        Women decide after a time that their husband isn't giving them a nice, instagrammable lifestyle and they can still trade up to a richer man while riding their workhorse husband for alimony and child support that they will use to buy new shoes and go clubbing. Men bust their ass at 80 your weeks to afford the best possible lives for their wives and children only for the women to b***h "he's neve around" and then ruin him. Women are parasites

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I question the intelligence of a man who gets himself in a situation like that. Sounds like he thought with his wiener all the way through, honestly.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why are you so scared of giving women accountability for their actions?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            90% of divorce is initiated by the woman and 75% of divorce is initiated over financial reasons.

            Women decide after a time that their husband isn't giving them a nice, instagrammable lifestyle and they can still trade up to a richer man while riding their workhorse husband for alimony and child support that they will use to buy new shoes and go clubbing. Men bust their ass at 80 your weeks to afford the best possible lives for their wives and children only for the women to b***h "he's neve around" and then ruin him. Women are parasites

            Redpill memes have melted your brain. The majority of divorces are initiated by the woman but stats show that the most common cited reasons are infidelity and imbalance in the relationship. For example, statistics show that even in households where both parties make the same income 50% of women report still doing the majority of the housework versus only 20% of men. Additionally, divorced women do worse than divorced men on every single metric. They make less money, own less property, have lower educational attainment and do worse in the dating market, especially if they're a single mother. Financially speaking, only 10% of divorces even result in alimony. The median child support payment per year is around $300 a month and the median child support actually received by the custodial party is only $180 a month. The idea that women are divorcing men and making a killing in alimony is a statistical falsehood that you've allowed redpilled YouTube grifters to brainwash you into believing. Rethink your worldview, anon. Your loneliness and disillusionment with the world has been manipulated by liars on the internet to make money off of your impotent rage.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >majority of divorces are initiated by the woman but stats show that the most common cited reasons are infidelity and imbalance in the relationship

            Most common reason is "irreconcilable differences." Aka I no longer find him exciting and want to jump on some other guy's wiener. Anecdotally, I've seen this play out. I have friends from my childhood who married their first love, only to end up being divorced by their wife who "wants to explore herself." One of my friends already had two kids with her and he had to fight to even get more than just weekend custody - he was only granted 50/50 custody because her new bf was abusive towards the kids.

            Latest studies also show that millennial women are cheating more than millennial men - something that's unprecedented in human history and a biological anomaly since men have higher sex drives and hence more frequent desires for sex.

            I'm saying this as a guy who has 5 sisters, growing up completely "blue pilled" and thinking men are shit which is why marriages fail. Life experience and actual studies convinced me that what I was brought up believing was absolutely untrue.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >only to end up being divorced by their wife who "wants to explore herself."

            Forgot to mention that she was cheating. He tried to restore the marriage, telling her that he wants to work things out for the sake of the children. The guy told me he was about to kill himself after dealing with the years of depression that followed

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >majority of divorces are initiated by the woman but stats show that the most common cited reasons are infidelity and imbalance in the relationship

            Most common reason is "irreconcilable differences." Aka I no longer find him exciting and want to jump on some other guy's wiener. Anecdotally, I've seen this play out. I have friends from my childhood who married their first love, only to end up being divorced by their wife who "wants to explore herself." One of my friends already had two kids with her and he had to fight to even get more than just weekend custody - he was only granted 50/50 custody because her new bf was abusive towards the kids.

            Latest studies also show that millennial women are cheating more than millennial men - something that's unprecedented in human history and a biological anomaly since men have higher sex drives and hence more frequent desires for sex.

            I'm saying this as a guy who has 5 sisters, growing up completely "blue pilled" and thinking men are shit which is why marriages fail. Life experience and actual studies convinced me that what I was brought up believing was absolutely untrue.

            those stats mean nothing to me, I just know that I'm not afraid of giving all my love

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I just know that I'm not afraid of giving all my love
            That's completely orthogonal to whether you sign a legal contract or not.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Must be nice. I have no more love to give

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hoooly shit that copeism...it sounds like a literal roastie typed this

            Why should a man care about all of this? If women think they are better, then go be independent and let men enjoy their wealth.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >We men get fricked by divorces so bad
            >Actually statistics prove women get fricked by divorces much worse
            >Uhhhhh why should a man care about this?????
            Are you stupid or just moronic?

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what’s the ideal relationship dynamic like to you guys

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The benefits of marriage are many and well known and superior to unmarried cohabitation. Everything from less cheating to better health

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Never get married

    It starts off great. You love each other do the domestic thing, life is comfy. Then the first kid shows up. She’s all about the kid and that’s okay, being a mom is time intensive and you tell yourself it will get better once the kid gets older. But it doesn’t. And you knuckle down and do the dad/husband thing to the best of your ability, because hey, you’re a family man now. But you become persona non grata in your own home. You stick through it though, for the kids, because you love them all. And then you hit your mid 30’s and something weird happens, all these women who never paid attention to you when you were younger start coming out of the woodwork to tempt you. You keep it in your pants, as much as you might not want to. And then the resentment sets in, the resentment from working your ass off only to come home to neglect and disregard. And she can feel it even though you don’t say it. And you get bitter and spiteful towards each other. Then the misery is contrasted against the consequences of divorcing her and you have to make a choice. Suffer in silence or destroy your family.

    Never get married

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Damn. Now I feel so much better that I never married or had children. As soon as I hit 30 it was like a bomb had gone off. All these women I never could’ve pulled in my 20s started approaching me—like literally, they did the approaching. I don’t know how much of it was me or circumstantial, but I broke up with my longterm gf (who was great in every way) to go on a frickboy speedrun through all kinds of thots, tindarelllas, coworkers, bar randos.

      If you can’t get a divorce, you should just cheat. Don’t let your prime frick years go to waste.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They were lying

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Can you tell me more about your frickboy speedrun since I am already 29, never had that period in my life before, but I am planning to start it asap? No wife, no kids, I only have a gf now.

        Is it hard to pull off zommies in your 30+? I am not interested in women my age or older women to be honest.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've been married over 40 years
    >yes, it is true
    My brother has been married for over 40 years.
    My closest friend has been married 25 years this year.
    Many long-time co-workers and friends are divorced. Some after 15+ years of marriage.
    In general my experience mirrors the statistics - of friends and family about 1 in 5 couples are divorced and once someone divorces and remarries they are more likely to divorce again. And again. I have a sister on her 5th husband, for example.
    In my personal anecdotal experience what separates the marriages that last from the marriages that don't
    >And they are effectively good and bad. The only two marriages I know of with dead bedrooms both ended in divorce after just 2-3 years. One was the man's fault, too
    is really odd and really obvious.
    WHY did you want to get married?
    My sister? She OVED weddings! She manages a spa that prepares women for proms, weddings, and such and works as a wedding planner. She was reading bride's mags when she was 6. I don't think she ever loved any of her husbands, she wanted a WEDDING. Weddings are glamorous and amazing, marriage is hard work.
    My friend where HE was the cause of the dead bedroom started dating this smoking hot redhead when he and I were both 23-24. She was the sort to have a Serious Boyfriend for 4-6 months then the Boyfriend Was Emotionally Abusive, over and over. But my pal?
    Money. Family money and a good career. Over the course of a year she took over his life with tears and blowjobs and just - booked a wedding. After marriage she spent his money and gained 50 lbs and he checked out. After 17 years he divorced and now he has a FWB.
    Like the others the people were marrying for money, or stability, or because they are "supposed to", or it was "time" or they wanted a wedding that was nice, etc.
    more

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sorry! Typo!
      I have been married over 30 years, sorry.
      My father *hated* my brother's wife when they were dating. She was from a family Dad didn't like. He tried everything to keep them apart but my brother held firm and they got married. Dad mellowed after grandkids, but they both wanted to be married *to be together*.
      My close friends were Catholic and Baptist. Both families demanded they not marry unless the other converted. They suck to their guns and married anyway *because they wanted to be together*.
      When I met my now-wife we had radically different plans and careers that were totally incompatible. We both dropped careers and relocated across the country to start over *because we want to be together*.
      And so on.
      The married couples I know that stay married and stay happy and stay attracted got married because their main goal was to be together.
      Everyone with other motivations ended up unhappy and divorced.
      Trite?
      Sure.
      Kinda' fricking obvious? Yup.
      But what I see

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why would I sacrifice anything to be together? I've built up a lot, and to give all that up at a chance of being together with a girl? That's frankly absurd

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Whats absurd is youve taken the idea of sacrifice, an extremely common practice to get what you want (in fact im sure by "working hard" to "build up" what you have involved "sacrifice" so you DO understand the concept.) And immediately steered it into a 1 dimensional "why I shouldnt get married" thing.
          Like fine you dont want to. That's ok. You shouldnt sacrifice for it if it isnt what you want.
          If it is what you want (and I cant believe Im the first to tell you this but different people want different things than you.) Then sacrifice is part of it. And it doesnt necessarily mean exactly what you think it means.

          But this is beside the entire point, whats important here is:
          If you dont want to be married, and dont want to give up what you have, what you've earned, how you live and so on for a woman or relationship (all of which is totally fine, thats your life) then why in lords name are you in an adv thread about how to have a successful marriage posting your "nuh uh" shit.
          Theres no place in this thread for you. I am not kidding, I mean this human to human, I think you need to think about why you felt the need to post this.
          Sounds like youre denying something or compensating or justifying something. Youd keep scrolling otherwise my man.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I say that because I did just that, i did sacrifice to be with my now exgf. I moved I quit my job and moved to another country with my gf that she was really excited about. The relationship eventually became hell and bombed, and I was left without a career and I was basically broke. I had to move back to my parents' house with my tail tucked between my legs and had to rebuild everything again. I'm not just going nuh uh, I'm speaking from experience

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So you married someone recklessly impulsive who will drop everything to start over due to some whim of a better life elsewhere, youre absolutely fricking shocked she later on a whim dropped you to start over on a whim elsewhere, and now are discouraging others from marrying because you, at age however old you are now still havent figured out "people are pretty predictable and will do exactly what they show you they do".

            Dude come on. You're exactly like women who marry an irresponsible emotional child who turns out to be abusive then cry about how awful men are when he wont oay child support. Like from day one she told you what she was gonna do. You were too love blind to see it.

            As other anon said, and I reinforced.. it is not hard to predict which relationships will work. In your case, she showed you she has the capacity to just blindly leap into a new life with no prospect. So thats what she did to you later.

            Dont discourage others because you havent figured out that simple fact about people.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So you married someone recklessly impulsive who will drop everything to start over due to some whim of a better life elsewhere, youre absolutely fricking shocked she later on a whim dropped you to start over on a whim elsewhere, and now are discouraging others from marrying because you, at age however old you are now still havent figured out "people are pretty predictable and will do exactly what they show you they do".

            Dude come on. You're exactly like women who marry an irresponsible emotional child who turns out to be abusive then cry about how awful men are when he wont oay child support. Like from day one she told you what she was gonna do. You were too love blind to see it.

            As other anon said, and I reinforced.. it is not hard to predict which relationships will work. In your case, she showed you she has the capacity to just blindly leap into a new life with no prospect. So thats what she did to you later.

            Dont discourage others because you havent figured out that simple fact about people.

            And for humanizing effect, let me level, I had a long term relationship that also failed and left me with nothing.

            She had a boyfriend. She hid him from me and when I found out, she told me it was bevause he was abusive, the relationship was over, she was just scared hed hurt her, they werent having sex or anything, they hadnt in a year, and then she left him for me.

            We dated 6 years. In the last year, we never had sex, she got distant, started vanishing places and got secretive.
            Do you want to take the wildest guess what she was doing? How about what she told him I was like when he found out I existed? What she did next?
            Ill spoil it. She was conflict avoidant af and a people pleaser so when done with the relationship she wouldnt tell her partner then shed find someone else and lie until she was caught and the only way she knew how to justify lying and not look like a piece of shit was to say "uhh hes abusing me and Im scared".
            People. Loop. You can apply this knowledge to men, too. Its a powerful concept. Pay attention to what people show you.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            BTFO

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I've built up a lot
          Sure you have.
          When you're in the hospital after being hit by a drunk driver, with that 'a lot' take care of you? Cry over you? Nurse you back to health?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, a modern western woman will definitely take care of you and nurse you back to health:

            exactly.
            ladies, get your cat. get your porsche. get your villa by the lake. get that piano, get that fully equipped workshop, get your own home atelier. get whatever you want. and even if being cooped up in a cozy apartment is more to your liking - any option will be better for you without a male. there is no benefit to being a free slave to a male and they're literally killing themselves over more and more women turnign their backs on them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pretty sure she can't do anything about it if she's not a surgeon kek. And being alone is better than being with a lunatic

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, a modern western woman will definitely take care of you and nurse you back to health: [...]

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Im so happy to read this because youve put so perfectly what Ive been here for years which people really dont understand.
      It is not a coin toss, and you have a lot of control over the outcome of your marriage *at the beginning* of the relationship. That is to say who you choose, why, how well youve assessed them, whether or not you listened to your dick or your brain when it came to red flags.

      If you marry someone who wants to be married, understands the challenges, is capable of cooperation, compromise, communication, conflict resolution and willing to serve the marriage, and YOU are the same way, you will be fine.

      >people who divorce more likely to Divorce again.

      Having been in 3 long term relationships in my lifetime (the third of which is my marriage) anecdotal as it is, I am extremely confident experience in splitups is a huge role.

      My first girlfriend (6 years) was not right for me at all. It dragged out in ways you very frequently see other relationships drag out. Fear of hurting the other because you don't hate them. Fear of being alone, fear of never loving again, fsar of never being loved again, fear of judgement, fear of how you'll be perceived by others over leaving someone etc. And then, most of all, the inability to handle the extreme lows of a breakup which are likened to heroine withdrawal and feeling youll never be ok again.
      On your second relationship, you know it all passes, you know youll be fine, you know shell be fine, you know there'll be others, youre less concerned with the perception, you know how to move forward.

      I wouldnt say it means you CANT have a successfuk marriage after, but that leap from "Im not happy" to "its over" is infinitely easier.

      Thats also not to say future loved ones are more meaningless. I feel I could handle a split with my wife better than any past relationship. I still would sacrifice everything to prevent that from happening.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sorry! Typo!
        I have been married over 30 years, sorry.
        My father *hated* my brother's wife when they were dating. She was from a family Dad didn't like. He tried everything to keep them apart but my brother held firm and they got married. Dad mellowed after grandkids, but they both wanted to be married *to be together*.
        My close friends were Catholic and Baptist. Both families demanded they not marry unless the other converted. They suck to their guns and married anyway *because they wanted to be together*.
        When I met my now-wife we had radically different plans and careers that were totally incompatible. We both dropped careers and relocated across the country to start over *because we want to be together*.
        And so on.
        The married couples I know that stay married and stay happy and stay attracted got married because their main goal was to be together.
        Everyone with other motivations ended up unhappy and divorced.
        Trite?
        Sure.
        Kinda' fricking obvious? Yup.
        But what I see

        >id sacrifice everything
        Important to note there are children involved... so the stakes are indeed higher so that muddies that point a bit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >If you marry someone who wants to be married, understands the challenges, is capable of cooperation, compromise, communication, conflict resolution and willing to serve the marriage, and YOU are the same way, you will be fine.
        When people ask my wife
        >"Gosh! Over 30 yers! What is your secret?"
        she says
        >"We both want to stay together and that makes fixing problems easy"

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous
          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            could you suck more wiener? jesus fricking christ.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Interesting... My parents were asking me if I'd like to get married to someone soon. We only do courting. How many years would you court someone? I'm 23 if that matters.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Apart from tax reasons or religious reasons, no.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      For tax purposes (in America at least) it's better to be a single mom than married parent. You get more gibs that outweigh the tax break. There are ways of gaming the system to be married per a church but not by the state to milk the benefits and keep child support money within the household, but you also have to be careful about common law marriage rules.

      Women don't like about stuff like that.

      I haven't laughed this hard in a while. A woman will lie about absolutely anything if it justifies her desires/actions without so much as an inkling of remorse or consideration for anyone else affected. My exes did it, my current gf does it, my own mother does it, my grandmas did it, my coworkers do it, and I guarantee if you start paying attention you'll see the women in your life do it too.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There are really 30+ year olds in here saying they don’t want to date 30+ year old women? The girl in OP is in her 30s. 30 year old women are less annoying than their 20 year counterparts and still as attractive unless the woman has dog shit genetics or does drugs.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      A woman in her 30s has been through many dicks and many experiences. Even if she is genuinely a good-looking and sweet, kind girl, who loves you, your relationship with her will be 100% transactional (marriage, kids, joint everything, a stable career on your part etc), which differs when dating 20+ somethings.

      When dealing with younger women, there is still some naivety and optimism in their heads, and less transactional nature of romance in itself. It is more about feelings and emotions, less about "what are we going to buy tomorrow for our kids?". Butterflies in stomach happen in teen and 20s years for a reason.

      You and me both know it, so I wonder why you asked such an obvious and silly question. Either you lack experience with women of different ages or you are just a super gullible person, or I just got baited. One of three here.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Dating in my 30s with other women my age landed me a wife who shares my hobbies and is fantastic in bed, can cook and treats me like a king.
        20 years olds these days don’t know how to treat a man, are entitled and don’t perform better at sex than women my age. I dated a few 22-25 year olds and most always wanted to order food or eat out and take pictures for their shitty socials to try and become influencers. They were total pillow princesses and when i’d instruct them on what to actually do to please me, they would get tired after a few minutes in top. Young womeb barely go to the gym these days and get winded riding dick for more than 10 minutes. These women werent even fat so what excuse is their to be so out of shape young?
        30 year old women in general have better values and understands she needs to bring something to a relationship as well as take care if herself physically.

        I think you’re projecting your own inexperience with women onto others as you’re just parroting shit manosphere podcast gays say and all those cucks are paying prostitutes instead if actually getting women.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This is way more accurate in my experience.
          It's mostly terminally online guys who post the "muh experience" meme. In reality, I have talked with 20 year olds in real life and they have shiny object syndrome. The second a taller guy comes around they're ditching your ass.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The second a taller guy comes around they're ditching your ass.
            You think a 30 year old wouldn't if she knew the new guy wanted a relationship? Kek.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not him, but no, a more mature girl isn't going to do that.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            20 year olds have it way worse. 30 year olds have less of it. 50 year olds don't have it at all.

            Only because she is more likely to know from experience that the new guy won't give her a relationship. She still fundamentally will want to replace you with a better option if she gets the chance.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why should I care? She can do what she wants, if my time with her is temporary then so be it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's the right overall conclusion but it's mistaken to think dating older women will improve it. Also don't get married.

            >She still fundamentally will want to replace you with a better option if she gets the chance.
            The better option is the man who will give her the relationship. There is no better otherwise. Height plays no factor in what is better or worse.

            I'm not sure if you're actually disagreeing. I said if a guy came along who was taller but all else equal and offered her a relationship she'd take it. The only difference between 20 and 30 is she'd be better at sniffing out men lying about offering the potential relationship.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >That's the right overall conclusion but it's mistaken to think dating older women will improve it. Also don't get married.
            It does imo. Older women can't score the tall athletes because they all go for younger women.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I said if a guy came along who was taller but all else equal and offered her a relationship she'd take it
            No, she wouldn't, because she already has a relationship going. A relationship is a lot of work and it's impractical to abandon one just to start over again on no basis besides "he's taller," a metric which changes nothing.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >"he's taller," a metric which changes nothing
            Yeah women are famous for not caring about height at all lmao

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I thought we were talking about more mature women. Were we not? Maybe only I was, since I'm the only one between us who seems to understand the difference.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're delusional if you think that getting older changes what they actually find attractive.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's not about getting older, it's about becoming more mature. Netting a taller man is a puerile fantasy.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >She still fundamentally will want to replace you with a better option if she gets the chance.
            The better option is the man who will give her the relationship. There is no better otherwise. Height plays no factor in what is better or worse.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            20 year olds have it way worse. 30 year olds have less of it. 50 year olds don't have it at all.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >That's the right overall conclusion but it's mistaken to think dating older women will improve it. Also don't get married.
          It does imo. Older women can't score the tall athletes because they all go for younger women.

          This is more based than zoomers will ever understand.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Bros once she's had ten or twenty dicks inside of her she knows what it takes to make one stick around!
          I would have stayed with the girl I took the virginity of forever if I didn't frick up the relationship and cheat on her. Glad you're able to not think about what your wife was up to in the past though, genuinely
          >inb4 "you think about men during sex" cope
          IDK, what's gayer, not wanting to kiss a mouth that's taken countless dicks and cumshots, or being ok with it? IDK bro that's on you.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      A man in his 30s dating a woman in her 20s is for the bragging rights. It's to prove to his friends and family that he's got it...

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    gf only. marriage is for moron women too weak to make their own way in this world so they decide to settle for a dude and his scraps. always keep the backdoor open, ladies. marriage isn't just a piece of paper, it'll make it MUCH harder for you to get away. no 30$ wedding ring is worth trapping yourself lmao.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Really? Marriage traps women? Is this just shitty bait? Do yourself a favor and do some research on what happens in divorce courts, if that doesn't convince you then you're either uncurably moronic or this is some really shitty bait.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        As a dude you're kind generally piss me off. You are just as silly insecure in a week-minded as the women you think you are better than. Marriage fricks EVERYONE involved but of course you're useless ass always has to make it about you. You are weak in ways you don't even comprehend

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          In what ways does marriage make things worse for women to the point where it justifies saying that it traps them?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Direct me to where I said it's worse for them specifically, you attention prostitute.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I was responding to someone who said that marriage is a bad idea specifically for women because it traps them. I said to do more research in that area, and you responded saying that I'm silly and insecure and weak minded because it fricks them over as well. I asked you to explain how. Either explain or admit you reacted in anger and didn't take the time to even comprehend what you were reading.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >who said that marriage is a bad idea specifically for women because it traps them
            No, you homosexual. What rewriting history. They said it was bad for them, not ONLY bad for them. You came in at a fricking nowhere to defend us (men) because you interpreted what they said as "it only harms women" The next night at all what they fricking said..... Acknowledging that it folks over one party is not saying it ONLY hurts them you worthless glass licker.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >throwing most of your money and years of your life away is toootally worth financing a lawyer battle to get at least a few pennies you've invested into the marriage back
        lol
        lmao
        males are getting more pathetic by the hour yet still wonder why they're permasingle.
        NEVER marry. NEVER cohabitate. your love and energy belongs to your family, ladies. and males aren't family.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          a family of cats and boxed wine

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            exactly.
            ladies, get your cat. get your porsche. get your villa by the lake. get that piano, get that fully equipped workshop, get your own home atelier. get whatever you want. and even if being cooped up in a cozy apartment is more to your liking - any option will be better for you without a male. there is no benefit to being a free slave to a male and they're literally killing themselves over more and more women turnign their backs on them.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          exactly.
          ladies, get your cat. get your porsche. get your villa by the lake. get that piano, get that fully equipped workshop, get your own home atelier. get whatever you want. and even if being cooped up in a cozy apartment is more to your liking - any option will be better for you without a male. there is no benefit to being a free slave to a male and they're literally killing themselves over more and more women turnign their backs on them.

          >maaaaaales

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >throwing most of your money
          And yet women always seem to want men who make at least as much money as them. Curious.

          >years of your life away
          Time does not change whether you are a man or woman, you both invest the same amount of time into a specific relationship, and regardless time spent does not equate to trapping women.

          >financing a lawyer battle to at least get a few pennies you've invested into the marriage back
          Few pennies? Try half of his stuff and alimony + maybe child support. That is not cheap.

          Also interesting how you seem to have assumed a divorce from the start, and you don't even equate the exact same amount of time that your husband spent on the relationship to half of his life earnings and a monthly paycheck from him.

          Women like this are disgusting, and they are what is bred by modern society.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >And yet women always seem to want men who make at least as much money as them.
            yes, many women are told that a rich guy will take care of them.
            to any ladies reading this, this is NOT true. just because he has money does NOT mean he will share it with you or any children you may have. forcing you to go 50/50 to a standard of living only he can afford so he can financially bleed you out and many other tricks are just one of many tools to keep you trapped for life. NEVER share your finances with a male. NEVER marry a male. prenups don't guarantee your safety either. males aren't happy to take half your stuff, they want EVERYTHING you have and are happy to even kill you and your kids if material things alone don't satisfy them.

            you're expected to play family with a senseless aggressive chimpanzee that you're not allowed to kill even if he does threaten your life and that of your kids because males are the eternal dindu's. stay clear of their kind, or keep them around as human dildos if you want.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            This is bait and I'm done responding to it, I hope you get over whatever brought you to this.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      exactly.
      ladies, get your cat. get your porsche. get your villa by the lake. get that piano, get that fully equipped workshop, get your own home atelier. get whatever you want. and even if being cooped up in a cozy apartment is more to your liking - any option will be better for you without a male. there is no benefit to being a free slave to a male and they're literally killing themselves over more and more women turnign their backs on them.

      >And yet women always seem to want men who make at least as much money as them.
      yes, many women are told that a rich guy will take care of them.
      to any ladies reading this, this is NOT true. just because he has money does NOT mean he will share it with you or any children you may have. forcing you to go 50/50 to a standard of living only he can afford so he can financially bleed you out and many other tricks are just one of many tools to keep you trapped for life. NEVER share your finances with a male. NEVER marry a male. prenups don't guarantee your safety either. males aren't happy to take half your stuff, they want EVERYTHING you have and are happy to even kill you and your kids if material things alone don't satisfy them.

      you're expected to play family with a senseless aggressive chimpanzee that you're not allowed to kill even if he does threaten your life and that of your kids because males are the eternal dindu's. stay clear of their kind, or keep them around as human dildos if you want.

      You're getting a lot of heat from scrotes, but in my experience, this is 100% true. My last husband expected me to pay 50/50 for things even though I made 1/3 of his salary. I'm obviously okay with paying for things, but he'd ring the money out of me, usually by "forgetting" his wallet almost every time we went out. He pretty quickly started to resent me for not catering to his every whim, which included asking for sex no less than 3 times a day. (I'm not kidding.) I told him it hurt me physically and emotionally, he didn't care, and would keep nagging. He tried to pressure me into giving him kids way too early. He was vindictive, and when I split from him, he threatened to sue me. The only reason he didn't was that I made less than him. He later accused *me* of being the gold digger.

      Men in general are all like this. They expect you to worship their dick for just existing. They'll expect you to put in 50/50 on everything, but still never respect you as an equal.

      I think with my vegana, so foolishly I'm likely to remarry, but this time I'll go for a bangmaid. Hopefully he actually ends up doing shit around the house, instead of 90% of house husbands who just sit around and jerk off all day.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Men in general are all like this.
        See I felt bad for you until you started with this pathetic shit. The post literally right above yours states that genders are not monolithic. Kindly jump off a cliff if you're going to make things worse intentionally.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          To add on to what I said, you're probably going to do the same exact shit your ex-husband did to you. Such a bitter miserable person. No one in the right mind is going to want you if you act like this.

          This is what they think of you. Just be grateful for the honesty.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        To add on to what I said, you're probably going to do the same exact shit your ex-husband did to you. Such a bitter miserable person. No one in the right mind is going to want you if you act like this.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Get married bro, don't worry if she's "settling down" with you in her thirt-ACK!

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >women also take economic factors into consideration now, since they have to support themselves financially in the modern world
      Wow, big surprise. Maybe instead of shooting down women, you should start acknowledging the systemic issues at work?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Are you replying to the right post?

        >since they have to support themselves financially in the modern world
        Doesn't this make economic factors much less important than when they actually depended on their husband's income?

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you want short term happiness then keep on spinning plates (talk to and have sex with multiple women).
    If you want long term happiness then stay single and dedicate yourself to a project or a hobby or a cause.
    The chances of finding a woman that you are compatible with and managing a successful relationship is slim to none in today's world.

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    mostly for legal and financial reasons
    dad told me that a kid can't be considered "born out of wedlock" if married before they are born

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    And many other such U.S.A & West Europe Related issues

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's the ultimate commitment, the most potent way to say "I love you and I want you to be mine" that most people will ever have. It's a painfully undervalued thing these days with the rise in divorce but it can mean as much to you as you let it. The couples who get married after 2 years and divorce after 1, the partners who stop trying to impress and amaze their lover, the people without dreams and goals really put a bad name on marriage, but that doesn't mean YOUR marriage needs to be a failure.

    I'm planning to propose to my woman this year, we've been together since we were 18 and 20 and have been building our life piece by piece for 6 years now. I can't imagine a life without her. We're both fully enmeshed in one another's families and enjoy the company of eachothers friends, we've put eachother through school, been through monumental highs and lows as a couple and come out of it stronger, and we're hitting a point in life where we're able to reap the rewards of our labor.

    It works if you make it work. The past couple of generations of men and women seem to forget that love can be difficult sometimes and it requires a lot of effort on both parts to get through everything together rather than apart. Open honesty, dedication, integrity and a deep mutual admiration are keys to the marriages I have seen succeed; if you have those things you'll be ok.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's different when you actually grow together

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Seanonymous

    potential tax benefits and other legal processes can be easier too

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    lots of great advice and all
    but none of this explains how to explain to your partner that you dont want to tie the knot but still want to be with them.

    how do you explain to a woman these talking points without being an incel saying silly man things hurting their feelings.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You date them, and don't ask them to marry you. If they are willing to forfeit the entire relationship over a silly ring then she'll see herself out.

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I doubt OP is still around but this thread is enough to scare a dude out of getting married:

    [...]

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is there any point to getting married as opposed to just keeping her around as a gf?
    Get married all you want, just make sure there is a prenuptial agreement. It legally solidifies what happens in the event of a divorce. Too many stupid guys get married not knowing what a prenup is or are gaslighted into avoiding a prenup. Nah, if a prenup makes her mad, then just don't get married because that way you save the legal finances of a divorce than if you stayed as a casual couple.

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Marriage make some legal things much easier. If you refuse to marry your gf that you date two or more years then it might give her feeling that she's just a placeholder for somebody better which is waste of her time. And it gives some extra confirmation that you both are serious about each other.

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tons of tax breaks

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not really.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Marriage laws

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Secular marriages are never worth it.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *